. >> in 2008 when russia invaded georgia, the nation, not atlanta, >> that would be taking cyberwar to a new -- >> as the russians tanks crossed the border into georgia, simultaneously cyberattack hit georgia. and knocked out its telecommunications, its banking, connectivity to the outside word. you're right, cyberwar will probably always be part of a larger war. and cyberwar i think will only happen when a nation going to go to war anyway. no nation going to say, i have a new chinese cyberweapon. let's go out and go to war see if it works. we have had nuclear weapons since 1945, nine nations have them. no one has used one since 1945. so if the united states and iran get into a shooting war next year, which is highly possible, they'll probably -- there will probable be a cyberdimension to it. >> i won't talk about the united states' role and who is doing or might do cyberwar to whom. the united states is obviously not an innocent bystander in all this. you mentioned it's practiced if one supposes a degree, has a degree of cyberwar capability. who else, who are the superpowers of cyberw